D&D 4th Edition - Vorfreude und Diskussionsthread

[Yang Kwan Sun]

Tttt~Tripple-Post!!!

Zitat von Design & Development

Magic saturates the world and all the extraordinary realms beyond the world. Magic is an intrinsic force present in literally all things. Magic transforms and alters the natural world, sometimes actively and suddenly, other times subtly and over long centuries.

This arcane energy source is difficult to understand and even tougher to master. Those who do so through years of study, practice, and apprenticeship to accomplished masters are called wizards.

Wizards wield arcane magic. Wizards recognize reality for what it is: a thin veneer of structure supported and energized by a force that is ultimately changeable, to those who know its secrets. Thus wizards research esoteric rituals that allow them to alter time and space, hurl balls of fire that incinerate massed foes, and wield spells like warriors brandish swords. They call upon arcane strikes, power words, and spells to unleash raging torrents of cold, fire, or lighting, confuse and enthrall the weak-minded, or even turn invisible or walk through walls.

What sets wizards apart from others who attempt to wield arcane magic are wizards’ unique implements.

Most people recognize the four classic tools associated with wizardcraft: The Orb, Staff, Tome, or Wand.

Each implement focuses magic of a particular class slightly better than the wizard would be able to accomplish bare-handed. Thus wizards are rarely without wand and staff, orb and tome, or some other combination thereof.

A wizard’s orb grants better access to powers of terrain control and manipulation (such as clouds and walls), as well as retributive effects, detection and perception effects, and invisibility.

The staff is best suited to powers that forcefully project powers from the wizard, such as lines of lightning and cones of fire; however, a staff also has resonances with effects related to flight and telekinesis (pushing, pulling, or sliding creatures or objects).

A tome is tied to powers that reduce or neutralize an enemy’s capability in combat in some fashion, whether by slowing the foe, dazing, or through some other fashion. Tomes are also often important for spells of teleportation, summoning, shapechanging, and a few physical enhancement effects.

The wand is a perennial favorite, as it is an ideal conduit for powers that create effects well away from the wizard’s physical position, effects which include explosions of fire, bursts of cold, and other long-range effects that can affect several enemies at once. In addition, personal protections and countermagic effects may lie in wands.

Thus a wizard without an implement is like a slightly near-sighted man with glasses; the man can still see, but without his glasses, he can’t read the road sign across the way. In like wise, while wizard powers are associated with a particular implement, a wizard need not possess or hold a given implement to use its associated power. For instance, a wizard can cast the wand spell cinder storm even if he doesn’t own, has lost, or is not holding a magic wand. However, holding the associated implement grants a benefit to the wizard’s attack that is just like the benefit the warrior gains when attacking an enemy with a magic sword.

Ich hab den wirklich interessanten Teil rot gefärbt!

Scheint als würden Staff/Wand eine interessantere Rolle bekommen, als bisher, wo sie meist nur bessere Scrolls waren - IMHO.
Und mir gefällt die Idee bis jetzt sehr gut.

[GuildGoodknife]

Mann, mann Yang, schon wieder warst du mir einen Halblingsschritt vorraus, wollte grade posten

[Yang Kwan Sun]

Und ich werde es auch jetzt wieder sein - *kukuku*!!

Zitat von Davin Noonan

D&D is, of course, a great "rainy day" activity...if you're the dungeon master. You can make up adventures, campaign setting details, monsters, magic items, NPCs, and so on until...well, until it stops raining, I guess. But I wish there was more "rainy day" activity for players. If you aren't the DM and don't plan to become one, you can make up an alternate character or plan the future development of your existing character. At most tables, that's pretty much it. The reason is pretty basic: In most campaigns, the DM retains authorial control over the other elements of the game world, and the DM is also the gatekeeper for what character elements that you as a player have access to. Put another way, there isn't much "rainy day" stuff for the players because all the "user-generated content" is generated by the user we call the DM.

So here's what I'm thinking about today as I install a new subfloor and retile the bathroom: If you were going to cede a little authorial control to the players, what "rainy day" activity would you enable? The answer would illuminate some 4e discussions we've been having at the office, but you don't need to know 4e details to meaningfully think along with us.

One possible answer is at the guild/organization level. It's not too hard to imagine a table where the game essentially says, "Within this framework, PCs can build whatever cool organization they want, and then they can join it." You'd structure the guild/org creation rules to be mechanically constrained so that the DM has a sense of the overall power curve, and you'd provide enough narrative guidance that the guilds/orgs the PCs make up don't stick out like a sore thumb in the campaign world.

But that's just off the top of my head. There are other (and probably better) answers. I'll start a thread here so you can share your answers to the following question: If we give a little authorial control to the players, what "rainy day" activities would we enable?

Der orangene Text ist nur eine Idee, nichts Definitives aber definitiv nicht uninteressant!

Zitat von David Noonan

More D&D: A few weeks ago in the podcast, I said the thing that excited me most about 4e was revisiting adventure pacing...the whole "wizard is done at 9:05 a.m." problem.

(I know that "done at 9:05 a.m." is not always the best specific example of the problem, but it's a useful shorthand. Suffice it to say that when the characters in a cooperative game are on radically different "power attrition curves," it can make it awfully hard for them to, well, cooperate. And the power attrition curves of a fighter and a wizard could hardly be more different.)

I'm still jazzed about that. But it might be eclipsed by my new favorite thing: easy-to-mix monsters. Encounters at my Thursday night game are a lot richer when Monster A employs technique 1 to assist Monster B's technique 2. You can do that in 3e, of course. But in 4e, I find it:

• Easier to assemble those mixed monster groups on the fly.
• Easier to keep those monsters alive long enough to pull off their cool tricks.
• Easier to convince my players that they're a threat (in 3e, the power curve is such that a monster quickly falls from "appropriate challenge" to "speed bump" in the space of only a couple of levels).
• Easier to run those mixed monster groups at the table without my head exploding.

It's all so easy that I'm devoting my extra brain power to new monster sound effects (RaaaaaAAAAOOOWRRRR, for example) and more Byzantine plots.

And before anyone gets too worried, yes, there's still plenty of room for the big bad solo encounter. That's iconic to D&D, and we wouldn't dream of messing with it. But it feels a little "different" now, and on balance, that's probably good for table drama.

Die angesprochenen Aspekte farblich getrennt.
Blau: Word!! Da musste wirklich was gemacht werden.
Rot: Mehr Monster pro Encounter sind doch was Feines! Und der BBeG wird auch nicht vergessen - was wollt ihr mehr?!

[GuildGoodknife]

Sehr schöne Vorlage Yang, aber was muss ich da sehen? Eine von dir gepostete Information ist fehlerhaft bzw. nicht up to date?? Denn wenn wir uns den neusten Design&Development Artikel anschauen dann finden wir dies:

"What sets wizards apart from others who wield arcane magic are wizards’ unique implements. Most people recognize the three most common tools associated with wizardcraft: the orb, staff, and wand.

Any wizard can use an implement to increase the effectiveness of his spells. Just as a warrior gains a benefit when attacking an enemy with a magic sword, so does a wizard benefit from using a magic orb, staff, or wand with his spellcasting. In addition, each implement focuses magic of a particular discipline or tradition more effectively than the wizard would be able to accomplish otherwise. As a result, wizards are rarely without at least one of these tools.

The orb is favored by the Iron Sigil and Serpent Eye traditions. Serpent Eye cabalists use orbs to focus powers of enchantment, beguiling, and ensnaring. The mages of the Iron Sigil, on the other hand, employ orbs to guard themselves with potent defenses when invoking spells of thunder or force.

The staff is best suited to the disciplines of the Hidden Flame and the Golden Wyvern. Servants of the Hidden Flame wield fierce powers of fire and radiance through their staves. Golden Wyvern initiates are battle-mages who use their staves to shape and sculpt the spells they cast.

The wand is a perennial favorite for wizards who favor accurate, damaging attacks. Emerald Frost adepts use wands to help channel powers of cold and deadly acidic magic, while Stormwalker theurges channel spells of lightning and force through their wands.

A wizard without an implement is like a slightly near-sighted man with glasses: The man can still see, but without his glasses, he can’t read the road sign across the way. Likewise, while wizard traditions are associated with a particular implement, a wizard need not possess or hold a given implement to use a power belonging to that tradition. For instance, a wizard belonging to the Hidden Flame order can cast the fire spell cinder storm even if he doesn’t own, has lost, or is not holding a magic staff. But if he does have a magic staff, it aids the accuracy of his attack, and his mastery of the Hidden Flame technique allows him to deal more damage with the spell. "

Was sagst du? Das hat vor ein paar Stunden da noch nicht gestanden?
Ist das deine Ausrede für alles?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070917a

Ansonsten, Top Notch work Mister Master Samurai!

[Yang Kwan Sun]

Was sagst du? Das hat vor ein paar Stunden da noch nicht gestanden?

Ja, weils stimmt.

Ist das deine Ausrede für alles?

Nein, denn es ist die Wahrheit.

Ansonsten, Top Notch work Mister Master Samurai!

Ich weis.


Soll ich die Änderungen jetzt besser/interessanter finden? - Beim besten Willen, ich weis es nicht - dennoch die Grundidee ist und bleibt gut!

[Yang Kwan Sun]

Der Beitrag zu den Wizards und deren Unique Implements, den Guild gepostet hat, sollte ursprünglich als einziger online gehen.

Zitat von Bart Carroll

The version you see now is the version that should have originally gone live.

Zitat von Christopher Perkins

At some point, I want to talk more about the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game, and what we're planning to do with it after the launch of 4th Edition. We've had conversations. Good ones. One thing I know we're doing is planning d20 Modern content on D&D Insider. A good number of folks have asked for it. Frankly, we could use a few more good article and adventure proposals, too.

Nicht wirklich über die 4E aber es schadet auch keinem es zu wissen, da es ja fast Hand in Hand geht.


Eigentlich nichts allzu nützliches diesmal - leider.

[Yang Kwan Sun]

Auch am Abend lässt sich noch etwas finden:

Zitat von Peter Schaefer

4e: Devils and Dragons, oh my! Yes, we're in the D's.

OMG, welch gute Neuigkeiten, jetzt noch ein schönes Preview und nicht nur ich wäre glücklich darüber!

[Yang Kwan Sun]

Zitat von David Noonan

It's difficult to talk about implements without handing over big chunks of the Player's Handbook, but I'll give it a shot. I think I can avoid the mechanics while talking about the at-the-table result.

My 4e wizards are capable of the same breadth of tricks as their 3e ancestors...regardless of the choices I make about implements. But I do care about my implements. Smart choices there make me more effective and differentiate me from all those other--and assuredly lesser--wizards out there.

It's easy to take this analogy too far, but it might be worthwhile to think of a wizard's implements as analogous to a 3e fighter's weapon choice--if you assume that the fighter hasn't deeply, deeply specialized in that weapon through feat choice. Mid-level Tordek prefers axes, sure, and he probably has an advantage with an axe that's substantial but not overwhelming. You put a polearm in his hands, though, and he functions just fine. And he's accessing the salient properties of the polearm--reach, for example.

Hoho er hat recht, es ist nicht leicht über etwas zu reden, ohne die Details beim Namen nennen zu dürfen. Seine Analogie zur Waffenwahl eines Fighters finde ich gut gelungen, sollte es sich denn auch wirklich so anfühlen.
Macht die Item-Dependency auch nicht zu hoch, was hoffentlich ein allgemeiner Pluspunkt der 4E wird.

Zitat von David Noonan

Another thing about implements and the "Iron Sigil"-style disciplines/traditions: They're extensible. I've read a lot of threads that essentially say, "Here's how I'm going to make it work in my campaign..." Yes! That's exactly what we had in mind. You can add your own implements and disciplines/traditions to the mix. Doing so takes some work, but it's not a massive undertaking.

Interessant, das manche Leute schon wissen, wie etwas bei ihnen funktioniert, bevor sie wissen, wie es überhaupt funktioniert.

Zitat von David Noonan

And it probably won't shock you to learn that we might crank out some new implements and disciplines/traditions ourselves at some point.

Es würde mich schockieren, wenn es nicht so wäre.

[Yang Kwan Sun]

Zitat von David Noonan

Playtesting: We're sending out emails to DDI/message board members today asking whether they'd like to participate in a playtest wave that starts this week. If you get one, I hope you can do it. This game lives or dies at the table, and more insight into more tables equals a better game.

Ich will auch beim Playtest mitmachen - ich hab keine Message bekommen.


Viel Glück euch allen, vllt seid ihr dabei - Hyper Hyper!!

[GuildGoodknife]

Ich hab auch keine Mail bekommen - gawd darn it!

Dafür ein paar Fitzlechen News:

Aus Chris Perkins Blog:
"The D&D cosmology — largely unchanged since 1st Edition — is receiving its share of scrutiny as well. We're making revisions to the cosmology so that the planes work better as adventure sites. Case in point, the individual Elemental Planes (as decribed in 2E and 3E) aren't the most interesting adventure locations; their sheer inhospitability, vastness, and uniformity discourages exploration, and the creatures that dwell there are predictable and easy to thwart if you're packing the right spells. (Of course, these planes don't hold a candle to 2E's hilarious Plane of Vacuum, which is truly the antithesis of fun.) In the Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters book, we'll present in more detail 4th Edition's alternative to the Elemental Planes of Water, Fire, Earth, and Air. My hope is that the cosmological changes will excite players and actually encourage DMs to set adventures in these far-flung locales."

Interessant! Die Planes zu überarbeiten und interessanter für Abenteuer zu machen klingt schon mal gut!


"Integrating New Elements
We have new stuff in the core rules. For example, as many of you know, the tiefling now appears as a core race in the Player's Handbook. Tieflings have a dark edge to them, and they have some fun new game mechanics as well. Their story is a particularly interesting one, involving diabolical pacts and ancient tyrannical empires. Of course, whether you choose to adopt that story or create a different origin story for your campaign is entirely up to you.

The tiefling's inclusion in the core rules compelled us to imagine what the D&D world would be like with tieflings around in greater numbers. It also gave us added incentive to include the warlock class in the Player's Handbook, since tieflings and warlocks are an excellent match story-wise and flavor-wise. (Just so we're clear, tieflings can belong to any class in 4th Edition, not just warlocks. I'm playing a tiefling cleric in a current 4E playtest. His name is Zade Shadowhorn, and he worships Erathis, the goddess of civilization.)"

Oha Warlocks sind also im PHB, hmm ob der Warlock den Sorcerer abgelöst hat, oder den Sorcerer gefressen hat oder etwa beide vertreten sind? Ich tipp auf Warlock killed Sorcerer and took his stuff.